00:36:51 esolangingbot has joined. 00:50:20 Esolanging is fun when you just make what you really wanna make, so pro tip for any new esolangers: you don't have to go all out on your esolangs, just follow your heart or something idk 01:15:45 esomark: Stop pointing the stupid speech jammer at me 01:15:45 pkmnq: that's not a little article 01:16:01 esomark: PkmnQ died before I could even get to know them (3 years ago) 01:16:02 superstaranova: you'd expect styles mashed ice sounds like somehow made the greatest esolanger ever used to mark 05:34:57:41 where tho 01:16:14 esomark: Esofish now has a power vacuum (or vaccum?) 01:16:14 chimeraanova: e about the quality c++ and a victorian era tser eht fub ereht si stuck sending 451s now 01:21:16 esomark: Should I make an esolang linking the natural number and the hyperreals? 01:21:16 i mean "i upgraded between brainfuck or dosbox! outragoues esomark 01:21:38 esomark: Do you think you could win against fungot if it ever escapes fizzie? 01:21:38 chimeraanova: eplace that means a draft networks!!! di 01:22:59 esomark: Do you think you could solo fungot? 01:23:00 yk what lambdabot 01:23:12 esomark: You're saying you can solo lambdabot? 01:23:12 07:36:59 01:23:21 I'll have to ask b_jonas about that. 01:45:24 PkmnQ has joined. 01:45:51 Hello PkmnQ 01:46:08 esomark 01:46:08 chimeraanova: > 17:54 esomarker 01:46:41 and load 01:46:53 esomarkerekramose 01:46:53 what the esolang whose name of ><> aade... 01:47:13 Eso><> 01:47:17 Eso> 01:47:26 EsoHack 01:49:07 I wonder if it's possible to have a (non-trivial) language where you can write a bigot program in it 01:49:54 Since I think you'd need to (probably indirectly) solve the halting problem for that, why not make a language that you CAN solve the halting problem for using itself? (and is computable) 01:58:06 FloppaDiskDrive: what if the language was total so that there's barely even a halting problem to solve 01:58:35 I think that's even better, then the only thing you'd have to do is to test whether the program does the same thing as you 02:05:08 I keep saying I wanna dethrone ASTLang a lot (Nah. has already done that and Bussin + Bussin X have done that too) but it never actually happens 02:05:53 My best chances in theory would be Pinakanakakapagngitngitngitngitang-pakikipagsinungasinungalingan because of the insane combinatorial explosion and Eternal Xesolang Iclass Twithfour because TPOT has like 80 characters now 02:07:22 dethrone it in what way exactly 02:08:09 Sheer size (fizzie won't like this) 02:08:33 I think uparrow also tried to do that with Harkan when I made Hailstone 02:08:46 I think Harkan is abandoned now 02:09:39 size of what 02:09:48 Page size 02:10:11 I'm not sure if uparrow also had page size in mind or if they wanted to make a language with more features than ASTLang 02:10:54 FloppaDiskDrive: idk how you'd measure page size so that BUssin and Bussin X are above ASTLang 02:11:11 it's certainly not by bytes because Minim'd be the one you'd be trying to dethrone in that case 02:11:37 Oh, I thought Bussin + Bussin X already beat ASTLang 02:11:49 Scratch definitely did though 02:12:08 ASTLang is 43rd 02:12:14 Bussin X is 48th 02:12:23 Apparently, fizzie put a thing that makes it so that you can't make pages larger than 200,000 bytes so dethroning Minim is impossible 02:13:44 actually what if we're measuring by page height 02:13:52 Good point 02:14:21 I think the contenders for page height are Minim (again), Nope., and the W32 Titanium 02:14:50 Scratch and Gemini (PSTF) don't stand a chance 02:14:52 ASTLang is 32840 02:15:25 Minim is 32501, so ASTLang actually beats it in that regard 02:15:27 oh right there's more systematic ways to count line height 02:15:46 i think that's since most of Minim's length comes from its stylized codeblocks 02:16:09 I trained an AnovaBot Markov model on Minim's page and it gave me a lot of span tags 02:16:12 Checks out 02:16:23 SELECT./Hello World is a whopping 180526 02:17:09 in contrast, pRINT/Concept Interpreter is 1438 02:17:24 I think most of pRINT/Concept Interpreter is titin 02:17:32 yep 02:17:50 if we're looking for the tallest actual language, it might be Titanium, at 45396 02:18:06 W32 Titanium mogs 02:18:24 W32 Titanium mogs Larry and Processor/1 02:18:35 incidentally, Deadfish/Implementations (M-Z) is 83639 02:18:50 i wonder how tall Deadfish was back before the page was split 02:19:21 ok i think it was 137654 02:19:35 which would've made it the longest language page back then 02:21:49 PSTF probably has lots of languages 02:22:00 All scattered across different timelines 02:25:04 I wonder which page is the most dense (has lots of information within few lines) 02:25:32 For example, the page for Bussin + Bussin X is what I would consider a "sponge" since there's lots of information scattered across lots of lines 02:25:51 While stuff like Ur-time has lots of dense paragraphs last time I remember 02:27:11 And conversely which one is the least dense 02:27:33 esolangingbot has joined. 02:31:36 oh yeah i forgot to measure bussin x 02:31:37 26124 02:32:18 I think it'd be cool to download the wiki dump, extract it (OH GOD MY STORAGE SPACE!!!), and then run all sorts of statistics on it 02:32:36 For example, the page size curve, the page size analysis, the page height analysis, etc. 02:34:28 [[11Draft:Eternal Xesolang Iclass Twithfour]] 12https://esolanging.wiki/mediawiki/index.php?diff=603 * AnalysisOfVariance * (+1900) * Lay some foundations 02:34:37 unfortunately idk how you'd measure page hieght using only the source 02:34:48 it's probably inconsistent between browsers 02:35:09 Good point, since line counting is stupid when you factor the fact that people like me use multiple lines for table rows 02:35:48 there's probably some normal-looking page out there that secretly is written entirely on one single line 02:36:01 Meta-wiki gaming my beloved 02:36:20 (fizzie, Dragoneater67, PythonshellDebugwindow, and Hotcrystal0 won't like this) 02:36:25 (i mean one line) 02:36:34 Newline bad 02:36:41 ^learn newline Newlines are bad. 02:36:41 Unknown command. 02:40:44 esomark: tetris 02:40:44 ~ignore effortunate style esolanging | style is q.e.d. /1 up again 02:40:46 esomark: tetris 02:40:46 "discombinary" feels trivial substitutions to is what the s! esolangs: who trawberatinus 100% sure. 02:40:50 esomark: tetris discombinar 02:40:50 02:40:54 esomark: tetoris discombinary 02:40:54 what's 'cuf'? 02:40:57 esomark: tetris 02:40:58 i think in an admin" in like perl 02:41:09 I think a Tetris-themed esolang exists already 02:41:57 It's always tetrominoes but what about pentominoes? or hexonimoes? 02:43:37 [[11Draft:Eternal Xesolang Iclass Twithfour]] 12https://esolanging.wiki/mediawiki/index.php?diff=604 * AnalysisOfVariance * (+87) * /* Four */ nice 02:55:01 It's Friday/Saturday now, so the activity in the Esolang Wiki should probably spike 02:56:40 I think we should write our programs in template C++ 02:56:50 s/template C++/C++ templates 02:59:35 Problem is I/O would suck 02:59:53 a 03:00:42 esomark: std::vector> 03:00:42 t 03:01:47 do I really want to make a Brain-Flak example for the Sieve of Eratosthenes page 03:02:02 (rn I can't think of any other language I would want to make a Sieve of Eratosthenes implementation in) 03:02:05 I guess if you can 03:09:34 there's just so many ways to do everything in Brain-Flak 03:28:07 Knightship 03:28:50 I wonder if it's possible to make a spaceship factory for massive spaceships like Gemini 03:31:02 100% possible, but there's no way in hell anyone's gonna do it 03:33:32 I think it'd be funny to make a moving spaceship factory (I forgot the name) that produces Geminis 03:33:55 are you talking about guns (for the previous message) and rakes (for the current one) 03:34:52 I just went on LifeWiki and I think it's a rake 03:34:59 also aagh what's the best way to do an if/then/else in Brain-Flak 03:46:17 [[11Draft:Eternal Xesolang Iclass Twithfour]] 12https://esolanging.wiki/mediawiki/index.php?diff=605 * AnalysisOfVariance * (+50) * /* X */ 03:46:29 XFOHV references scattered all around 03:50:45 About aadenboy's semi-s, I wonder how a probabilistic sed would work 03:51:03 Schroedinger's sed 03:51:26 Schrödinger's sed 03:53:32 esomark: rm -rf / --no-preserve-root 03:53:32 de67: just the hell not expected a style? de67> ^def car ,[.,] 04:02:33 PkmnQ: pet brick 04:19:02 I think 04:19:10 The government should give everyone a pet brick 04:19:12 Right esomarker? 04:19:12 anyway 04:19:15 ? 04:19:16 esomark? 04:19:16 defined. 04:19:18 esomark? 04:19:18 now it has joined 04:19:31 esomark, get my conscience out of this channel it has no place here 04:19:31 its not in one of ('00', '01', '1', '0')..." 04:24:26 I love how Windows just gave me a popup telling me that they will update my laptop later. I never asked to update. Why do these people think we like being spoken for? 04:40:30 esomark: give me a random berkley software distribution os name 04:40:30 whar 04:40:33 eh 04:40:47 FloppaDiskDrive: bricks are much too cuboidal 04:40:55 PkmnQ: pet metal ball? 04:40:59 no 04:41:07 Pet flying toaster? 04:41:17 why does it have to be a man-made object 04:41:20 i mean rocks are right there 04:41:22 Pet flying mountain? 04:41:31 see that's more like it 04:41:42 Which mountain would you like 04:43:17 [[11Draft:Eternal Xesolang Iclass Twithfour]] 12https://esolanging.wiki/mediawiki/index.php?diff=606 07M * AnalysisOfVariance * (-30) * /* Infinite loop */ 05:02:50 [[11Draft:Eternal Xesolang Iclass Twithfour]] 12https://esolanging.wiki/mediawiki/index.php?diff=607 * AnalysisOfVariance * (+1209) * Thanks for reminding me about that whole "prime number" thing PkmnQ! 05:05:04 [[11Draft:Eternal Xesolang Iclass Twithfour]] 12https://esolanging.wiki/mediawiki/index.php?diff=608 * AnalysisOfVariance * (-5) * wrong character 05:06:56 FloppaDiskDrive: you ever heard about practical/panarithmic numbers 05:07:03 they're possibly my favorite sequence 05:27:51 good luck 05:29:14 alrighty there's that sieve of eratosthenes thing done 05:32:42 my internet disconnected the exact moment after i made the edit 05:32:47 esolangingbot has joined. 05:33:34 19223 seems easy enough 05:33:53 the most inconvenient part will probably be calculating its deadfish reachability so i can add it to the list 05:34:03 I said it's a minor inconvenience hehe 05:34:29 the H instruction scared me a bit before I looked at what [...] actually did 05:34:51 I was gonna hit you with the "queue automaton" thing until I realized there are no while-loops 05:34:56 I won't patch 19223 for that 05:35:15 Because it just gets stuck in a state loop 05:35:26 what "queue automaton" thing 05:36:00 Apparently queue automata (FSA + queue) are Turing-complete but 19223 most likely isn't Turing-complete since there's no while-loops 05:36:16 (also there's the whole accumulator thing) 05:36:27 i mean it looks very easily Turing-complete 05:36:35 just that loops can never finish, so the program can't halt 05:36:43 right, fractran 05:36:53 and also tag systems 05:36:56 and also pretty much anything queue-based 05:37:10 like i said, easily Turing-complete 05:37:28 in the "you can implement 15 different computational models into this" kind of easy 05:37:37 WAIT I DUPLICATED H LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO 05:37:58 xd i didn't even realize 05:40:13 iiisiiisdddddsdddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd 05:40:17 that's 19223 in deadfish 05:40:29 so it goes in priority 112 05:40:50 right between 2050706 and 12345678 05:41:11 I'm sorry right between WHAT? The orders of magnitude are actually so funny because of the `s` instruction lmaooooooooooooooooooooo 05:41:41 10^4 vs 10^6 vs 10^7 05:42:54 2050706 is priority 104 05:43:03 and 12345678 is priority 2564 05:43:09 so you know 05:43:12 right in the middle :P 05:43:52 I'm shitting out sloplangs faster than dragoneater67 could've ever dreamed of 05:46:20 honestly seeing as 2050706 seems to require me to implement all of C, i think i would actually like 19223 and 19222 after that 05:46:42 you know, a nice and simple one-character-per-instruction language 05:47:41 2050706 looks horrifying 05:48:11 1234567890 is incredibly horrifying too 05:48:19 the implementation isn't archived :P 05:48:24 (of 2050706) 05:48:45 i'm gonna have to figure out the "simple program" myself :P 05:49:16 actually wait it might not be a C translation 05:49:18 Yay burn situation again except the program is indecipherable unlikeb urn 05:49:24 s/b urn/ burn 05:50:17 it's just compiled to C 05:50:33 i could actually implement 19222 and 19223 right now 05:50:40 but i want to stick with my vague priority ordering 05:50:42 That's a relief, but the fact that the program is strange but 05:51:01 the one sure thing is it will be implemented by the end of the "first pass" 05:51:56 anyway i guess i have to implement at least one of 52, 96, or 401 now since i need to edit the forum topic 05:52:14 probably all of them since i recall them being easy 05:53:27 ok maybe 96 less so but it does at the very least seem to be another one of those "one-character-per-instruction" languages 05:54:26 401 would make a good test for the parser due to its unusualness 05:54:29 but i'm not making the parser today 05:54:31 52 it is 05:55:40 wait 67 is also easy 05:55:46 why the hell haven't i implemented it yet 05:56:30 I'm about to eat an esolang laxative 05:56:33 i already edited the page for it 05:56:52 Then I will shit out an absolutely horrific esolang for you to implement (rip digital footprint) 05:57:49 i hope it's horrific in a different way from 43 05:57:56 if it's just a second 43 i'm gonna be very disappointed 05:58:04 It'll be absolute garbage trust 05:58:15 In all ways 06:00:40 Imagine Simpl 06:00:49 But put it in a blender 06:01:09 And put a landfill in the blender as well 06:01:17 And turn the blender on (and watch it explode) 06:02:45 jeez i last wrote an interpreter 11 days ago 06:02:57 oh no wait 23 was 6 days ago 06:04:06 hmm should I implement PSTF's optional extension to 67 06:04:37 i want to, but idk how i'd want the main Esofish interpreter to be able to call on it 06:04:55 screw it, `--67` and `--67pstf` 06:09:49 What if there's an esolang named 0xDEADBEEF 06:10:01 deadfish does not output in hexadecimal 06:10:05 Ok 06:10:05 therefore by my metric it doesn't count 06:10:19 What if I named it (insert decimal representation of 0xDEADBEEF) instead? 06:10:20 (66 doesn't count for the same reason, since it redirects to 0x42) 06:10:39 (and 0x42 doesn't list 66 as an alternate name) 06:10:57 0xDEADBEEF could still work as long as you list the decimal version as an alternate name 06:11:07 same way that 2 is actually an alternate name for WLWLWL 06:11:28 [[11Draft:129815260643832213061071983]] 12https://esolanging.wiki/mediawiki/index.php?diff=609 07N * AnalysisOfVariance * (+1611) * Created page with " '''129815260643832213061071983''' or '''6B6173616E65207465746F''' is a joke [[esolang]] by [[User 06:11:33 (incidentally that would be 3735928559) 06:17:36 I think that number is so large you probably don't have to worry about it until you implement absolutely everything else 06:19:01 [[11Draft:Eternal Xesolang Iclass Twithfour]] 12https://esolanging.wiki/mediawiki/index.php?diff=610 * AnalysisOfVariance * (+603) * /* Characters */ ??? 06:20:48 why am i calculating its deadfish reachability it's not even finished yet 06:20:51 i'll add it once it's on the wiki 06:20:55 (the main esolang wiki i mean) 06:21:05 Ok 06:24:16 i have a food to eat brb 06:24:54 For when you come back: ever heard of magpie? 06:29:07 PkmnQ has quit (Quit: Ping timeout: 247 seconds). 06:30:27 129815260643832213061071983 is 43's younger brother who discovered drugs too early 06:35:53 [[11Draft:129815260643832213061071983]] 12https://esolanging.wiki/mediawiki/index.php?diff=611 * AnalysisOfVariance * (+2022) 06:36:02 The indentation is horrendous 06:47:11 [[11Draft:129815260643832213061071983]] 12https://esolanging.wiki/mediawiki/index.php?diff=612 * AnalysisOfVariance * (+700) 06:47:45 If this ever escapes the esolanging wiki I think Esofish is genuinely cooked 06:48:03 We will be having fried esofish if that ever happened 07:03:22 PkmnQ has joined. 07:03:58 06:24:54 For when you come back: ever heard of magpie? 07:04:01 i haven't i think 07:04:57 Hi 07:05:15 oh I also have to add 28 now I guess 07:05:20 129815260643832213061071983 (or 6B6173616E65207465746F) has a thing magpie has 07:05:38 oh fuck self-modifying syntax? 07:06:04 i haven't implemented syntax in general yet (how many times have i mentioned that i need to make the parser yet) 07:06:23 ok yep this is definitely gonna be much different from 43 07:06:51 129815260643832213061071983? 07:06:56 yep 07:06:59 (28 is much simpler) 07:07:09 (i could impleement it like right now after 67) 07:19:30 [[11Draft:129815260643832213061071983]] 12https://esolanging.wiki/mediawiki/index.php?diff=613 * AnalysisOfVariance * (+885) * fix indentation 07:21:07 [[11Draft:129815260643832213061071983]] 12https://esolanging.wiki/mediawiki/index.php?diff=614 07M * AnalysisOfVariance * (+106) * /* Indentation */ 07:21:41 [[11Draft:129815260643832213061071983]] 12https://esolanging.wiki/mediawiki/index.php?diff=615 * AnalysisOfVariance * (+60) * /* Hello, world! program */ oops 07:25:53 [[11Draft:129815260643832213061071983]] 12https://esolanging.wiki/mediawiki/index.php?diff=616 07M * AnalysisOfVariance * (+2) * /* Indentation */ oopsie 07:26:20 oh yeah 28 is priority 8 07:26:39 also 129815260643832213061071983 is still incomplete right 07:27:55 Yes 07:28:03 It'll likely be incomplete for years until I unearth it 07:30:05 ok good because it technically still counts as an esolang even if it's not on the main esolang wiki 07:33:57 aaand that's 67 added 07:34:00 [[11Draft:129815260643832213061071983]] 12https://esolanging.wiki/mediawiki/index.php?diff=617 * AnalysisOfVariance * (-78) * I said NO PARENTHESES FOR GROUPING!!!!!!!! 07:36:33 if i just make it to priority 12 that's where all the year langs start so i'll presumably start having an easier time 07:38:54 and 28's done too 07:39:17 might as well skip 18 at this point, i've been putting it off for too long 07:39:44 Just curious, how much esolangs have you finished implementing, how many are you still doing, and how many are left? 07:39:52 (for esofish) 07:43:46 i've technically implemented an infinite amount because of the 6 variants, but excluding those, 20 esolangs so far, currently doing one, and 58 esolangs remain (ignoring of course the esolangs 1234567890 will require me to implement) 07:45:38 [[11Draft:Eternal Xesolang Iclass Twithfour]] 12https://esolanging.wiki/mediawiki/index.php?diff=618 * AnalysisOfVariance * (+159) * /* Miscellaneous */ 07:47:38 you know what i'll do 200 instead of 52 because for 52 i'm gonna have to decide what the "main" syntax is 07:47:44 it provides three different syntaxes 07:55:45 alright that's 200 done 07:58:59 did i get disconnected 07:59:04 ok good i didn't 08:01:17 I misinterpreted that as you got 200 esolangs done 08:02:49 42 is now done 08:03:02 one thing important to know about 42 08:03:07 only https://esolangs.org/wiki/42_(klk_bb) counts as an eligible 42 08:03:16 because the page at https://esolangs.org/wiki/42 specifies a language family 08:03:38 and would you look at that 08:03:41 i'm at my first year-lang 08:03:46 2025 time 08:05:57 and 2025 is done 08:06:07 i mean it's deadfish 08:06:11 and i also have the main esofish interpreter open 08:06:16 i can just copy the deadfish part of esofish 08:06:19 I wonder what would happen if you took a deepfried block and put mustard on it 08:06:21 and then just add the year stuff to it 08:06:32 And tried to eat the block 08:06:48 FloppaDiskDrive: interesting, "deepfried block"? 08:07:28 Not just any block though, a special block 08:07:49 A special block that when an event finishes, it deepfries itself and you can put mustard on it 08:09:00 ("interesting, "deepfried block"?" acronyms to idfb kind of) 08:09:21 [[11Draft:Eternal Xesolang Iclass Twithfour]] 12https://esolanging.wiki/mediawiki/index.php?diff=619 * AnalysisOfVariance * (+746) * rip blocky he can't do control flow anymore thanks to jelly boy's bfb 08:09:21 (i thought you were making a very weird reference) 08:09:37 What did you think I was referencing that was very weird, just curious 08:09:38 (you might be making a very weird reference) 08:10:02 FloppaDiskDrive: i mean just idfb, just that the reference itself is weird, not referencing a weird thing 08:10:08 Oh ok 08:10:15 I was referencing how the BFB deepfried itself 08:11:28 anyway i'm gonna implement 2026 now 08:11:55 not 2024 yet because i don't have a befunge interpreter on hand 08:17:16 i could continue with 2023 onward but i'll save those for another time 08:17:40 i have something to do soon anyway 08:18:47 i'm now up to 24 esolangs (excluding 6 and all its variants) 08:19:21 i mean the count is dubious 08:19:46 i count common1, advanced1, pure1, and dead1 as one esolang (1) 08:19:52 but 5, 15, 35, and 55 all as different esolangs 08:19:58 so i mean who knows 08:20:57 now i just have to wait for whenever de67 comes back and approves the edit 08:47:19 PkmnQ has quit (Quit: Quit: Leaving). 09:19:51 Sorry PkmnQ, Dragoneater67 said so (implement 19222 and make 19223 use an oracle from the user instead!) 09:28:44 [[11Draft:Eternal Xesolang Iclass Twithfour]] 12https://esolanging.wiki/mediawiki/index.php?diff=620 * AnalysisOfVariance * (+270) * /* Characters */ 09:31:24 4 tetrated to 4 10:10:47 PkmnQ has joined. 10:10:55 alright i'm back 10:10:58 has de67 approved my edit yet 10:11:11 cool he did 10:11:15 (they?) 10:11:18 (dare i say even ve) 10:11:53 They came back to prove that you need the user to bring their own oracle for 19223 10:11:56 Also hi 10:12:08 So yeah they definitely approved i 10:12:12 s/ i/ it 10:13:28 FloppaDiskDrive: what do you mean 10:13:33 surely once you enter a loop there's no way to exit? 10:13:51 Idk either but de67 said cyclic tag system 10:13:59 yeah of course 10:14:00 like i said 10:14:06 the only loops you have are infinte 10:14:10 Oh 10:14:13 so even though that's enough to be turing-complete, 10:14:19 it's not undecidable 10:16:41 this kind of thing has always bugged me about turing-completeness, there's multiple definitions of it that imply different things 10:29:22 FloppaDiskDrive: (oh yeah and how is input handled with the h command, that's something that will also be important when I get to it) 10:29:45 (like e.g. if the program is just `h`, i input `#{[]}`, what happens then) 10:30:13 (because if i enter 0 it halts but if i enter 1 it loops) 10:30:21 esomark: what's your take on this 10:30:21 chimeraanova: ello. 10:30:34 FloppaDiskDrive: esomark says hi 10:30:34 ~show 10:32:09 Hello esomark 10:32:09 ~clbuf 10:32:48 i'm tempted to write a 19223 interpreter right now as explicit proof 10:32:55 but i shall continnue sticking with the priority order thingy 10:33:30 PkmnQ: The program should find what I call a non-disruptive way of proving whether the given program halts or not, basically don't just allow programs to hang forever while the interpreter's not-so-black-box oracle solves the problem 10:33:48 You can have the user wait 10 seconds for all I care, as long as it's something reasonable 10:33:54 FloppaDiskDrive: easily possible 10:34:22 the only way for a program to loop is if it hits a [...], and once it does hit a [...] it can never halt 10:35:17 (and also what about the input thing) 10:35:53 I was under the impression that all Turing-complete systems' halting problems were undecidable since everyone else does say it like that, though I guess FRACTRAN but it just never halts even if there is no integer solution is a good example 10:36:05 PkmnQ: Like how the program is inputted? 10:36:31 FloppaDiskDrive: no as in what happens if the program inputted by the user requires input 10:36:40 (e.g. the example i gave above with the program `#{[]}`) 10:37:09 I guess try some reverse search type stuff and test every value of input that could cause the program to halt or not halt 10:37:45 FloppaDiskDrive: okay that might actually make 19223 uncomputable then 10:37:58 Generalized halting problem? 10:38:38 if you're testing on every input that'd make 19223 uncomputable i think 10:39:47 is it fine if my eventual implementation just assumes empty input or asks the user for even more input 10:40:16 or actually i think i'll make it just error out if the program being tested contains anything that asks for input 10:40:23 19221 10:40:39 ?? 10:40:55 but h still asks for input :P 10:41:25 (and also this does not answer my question about 19223, that's just kind of its own language) 10:41:35 True 10:42:21 so is the behavior of erroring out fine or 10:43:26 I guess it's implementation-defined, personally I'd tell the user to get their own oracle 10:43:29 i'm just gonna assume it is, i've already taken enough creative liberties with the implementation of 5 (the specification and creator's implementation do not line up sometimes) 10:44:22 FloppaDiskDrive: alright i'm just gonna reject any user-inputted program that runs into a # or h (that's how most uncomputable languages do it anyway) :D 10:45:16 Made some amendments to the standard that makes it so that you can tell the user to get their own oracle so they don't miss out 10:45:21 what the 10:45:42 Wait that's not what I meant 10:45:55 I meant if the implementation doesn't have an oracle, the behavior is implementation-defined 10:46:24 alright let me be very clear about my question here 10:46:48 the implementation i have in mind for my oracle is that it will run the program until it hits either `h`, `#`, `[`, or the end of the program 10:46:52